Mist On v. Magic

[DarkTan1]

Things are really heating up in the spray booth business. Magic Tan has a new web page called Magic Tan Legal to tell their side of the patent battle with Doc Laughlin of Mist-On Tan. Here's the link.

www.magictanlegal.com

Here are a few interest excerpts.
Magic Tan has hired an internationally recognized patent law firm to help defend against the actions taken by Dr. Laughlin. The law firm is named Harness, Dickey & Pierce.
Magic Tan has agreed to indemnify all customers against any actions taken by Dr. Laughlin concerning patent infringement issues. This means that any salon being harassed by Dr. Laughlin will receive full support from Magic Tan. Magic Tan will hire and pay for all legal efforts and expenses and in the unlikely event that damages are levied, Magic Tan will be responsible for those as well.
Magic Tan is also pleased to announce the establishment of a seven-figure legal defense fund. This fund reserve will be used to protect our Company and our customers from the aggressive actions of Dr. Laughlin.
It is important to note that Magic Tan would rather serve customers than fight patent lawsuits. Because of this, Magic Tan made several attempts to resolve the situation with Dr. Laughlin. All efforts at resolution were rebuffed and Dr. Laughlin actually filed many new lawsuits during the course of our discussions.

[Sc0tt]

This is exactly why I would never buy anything other than a Mystic/Mist-On Unit for my salon. I wouldn't want to worry about law suits

[DarkTan1]

As I mentioned in earlier, Magic covers its owners with an indemnity agreement. How does that work? What do they cover and not cover? Anyone know how it worked out with ETS with all those sued salons they indemnifed?

[Sc0tt]

I really have no clue. I was just stating that, even though Magic Tan *may* be a better booth...you'd still get plenty of customers if you had a Mystic. Even though Magic Tan may *protect* the salon, its still iffy. IMO, I would never get a Spray On unless it was Mystic Tan or Mist-On.

[Deputy Dan]

Ive heard from people that love each one and people that had disasters in each one.

[sunraysun]

Nothing ever happened with the salons that were sued by Mist-on. It was all a merketing strategy to get people to buy miston (fear!). Go with Magic, I did and I have no regrets.

[DarkTan1]

Sunraysun, sounds like you bought a Magic Tan booth and have no fear of patent lawsuits. Maybe you can answer my question. How do they work the indemnity deal? What do you do if the constable shows up with papers? Does the suit stay on your record or what?

[sunraysun]

I know a guy who owns a salon in Texas who got served with papers and he just faxed them to corporate and their attorneys handled everything. This was about four months ago and he has not heard a word about it since. MagicTan indemnify you of all liability and legal expenses and you never have to deal with it again. They can not touch you or your salon.

[DarkTan1]

Thanks, sunraysun. Your answer came just in time. A buddy of mine from Florida with a Magic booth got served today. He called me and gave me an earful - venting I guess. He was not a happy camper, indemnification or not. He claimed he knew nothing about this patent battle, and wanted nothing to do with it. I will pass your report onto him.

[sunraysun]

Darktan1,

If your buddy has any problems, let me know and I'll pass the details of this guy in Texas to talk to him and ease his concerns. But really, all he needs to do is contact corporate with the papers and forget about it. Regards, Will

[DarkTan1]

SunRaySun, he did it. Not sure how happy he is, but he did it. Meanwhile, two more buddies with Magics got hit. I'm sure they will do the same. Maybe MagicTanLegal will set up storm shelters in Florida.

[sunraysun]

Hey Darksun1,

As long as their business is not adversely impacted, which it wont be, I don't see what the big deal is. If I got hit, which I wouldn't be terribly surprised if I did, considering it is Laughlin's Marketing strategy to try to scare customers into purchasing a Mist-on or a Mystic, I wouldn't take it too much to heart. All MagicTan customers need to know is that they have the best technology on the market, so it isn't surprising that they have taken up a large percentage of market share and that this "sue tactic" is nothing more than a desperate attempt by Laughlin to try to get it back. Good luck to him, I feel bad for him in a way, but apart from attempting to scare people from buying MagicTans, there is not much else that he can do. Long gone are the days of monopoly and shame on him for trying to get $50,000 for that monstrosity that he's selling. And double shame on him for not being savvy enough to adapt to changing market conditions and just trying to be more competitive. If he put half the money he spends on lawyers into improving his technology and offering it at a better price, it would better serve salons like us by driving the price down and giving us more choice. We live in a market economy and smart people understand that anyone can sue anyone, but that doesn't mean that they will win. Having looked over the patents myself and with my legal team, I am not terribly concerned. Like I said, I feel more sympathetic to Laughlin than anything, but not enough to buy an inferior product at an extortionate price.

[DarkTan1]

I have tried both. Mist-On tan was darker and more even. I had no problem with the Mist-On booth. The Magic Tan setup had some strange features. The Magic compressor was out in the open next to the booth, and scared the **** out of me when it cranked up. The Magic operators told me that they didn't use the automated washdown because it made the room too humid, so had me put vaseline on my feet - that was yuk. I did like the looks of the front of the unit, but was scared by the spaggitti of wires and tubing I saw on the backside (which was not enclosed).

Microsoft doesn't take kindly of people pirating their software. Napster got in hot water for offering music at incredible prices. Guess Doc is trying to protect his patents, and the rights of the people who have bought his expensive booths or the booths of his licensees.

[sunraysun]

Hey Darktan1,

As the owner of a MagicTan who tried all the different technologies and even owning another, before MagicTan was on the market, I can tell you from experience that Magic is the best technologically. As an Engineer for 15 years, I benchmarket everything before I made my decision. BTW, You can adjust the heaviness of the spray to your desired intensity too. Additionally, there are three fragrant solutions, 1 with a light bronzer, another with a dark bronzer and another with no bronzer. Do you know which one you used? Their original compressor was a bit loud but they have changed it to a very quiet one (which they sent me). We have used the washdown from day 1 and have never experienced any humidity. I have no idea what that was all about. As far as the vaseline is concerned, I don't know what salon owner would do that since there is a barrier cream that works really well, unless they ran out. I would report that salon to MagicTan so they can help them get the most out of their machine. They'll be more successful and offer a better service to their customers - and probably thank you for it. It seems you have taken offence to what I said about the lawsuit, though I am not sure why. I am just a salon owner who has been experimenting with sunless since it came out and am trying to share my knowledge and experience with everyone here. I thought I was giving you advice to help your buddy and to extinguish the negative and misinformed postings that I have been witnessing. The truth is, I have been given every upgrade since I bought my MagicTan and have been very satisfied with all the support I have been given. I think that counts for something, after the neglect I received from my first sunless booth company. Sorry if I offended you.

_________________


[ This Message was edited by: sunraysun on 2003-12-10 09:32 ]

[ This Message was edited by: sunraysun on 2003-12-10 09:37 ]

[ This Message was edited by: sunraysun on 2003-12-10 09:40 ][ This Message was edited by: sunraysun on 2003-12-10 09:40 ]

[sunraysun]

I found this post and link on another website, which you may all be interested in :

What about all those lawsuits by Mist On including the BIG win over the Sunless Express?
I keep reading on the Mist On tabloid site about his success in the courtrooms especially about the alleged HUGE contribution by ETS toward his war chest and the alleged Sunless units that have been returned ('most' have been returned according to him) and wonder if the settlement is to be held 'confidential' as he suggests on his own tabloid, why is he making these statements about it? Some people (and I am not suggesting the Doc is guilty of this just for the record) just have to blow their own horn even when they legally agree not to. Go figure.

I wonder how much is true and how much is fabricated just to keep the sunless fear-factor spinning, or the hot air balloon afloat (as another analogy).

I know a lot of salons that have Sunless systems and none have ever been asked by anyone to return them or take them out of service. I own 3 myself and they work great and I too have NEVER been instructed to return them or trade them for a Mist On, or stop using them.

In fact, ETS informed me that they just stocked up on hundreds of thousands of dollars worth spare parts just to be sure their customers are taken care of for many, many years to come.

NEWS FLASH!!! Just today I got a PDF file from the United States Patent and Trademark Office dated 12/4/03 stating the upon re-examination of the patent 5922333, claims 1-8, 11-34, and 41-43 are rejected and claimes 9-10, and 35-40 are cancelled. Let's add this up, out of the 43 claims referenced, 8 have been cancelled, 35 have been rejected, and...let's see that leaves...hummmmm...ZERO. ZIP, NADA left to consider.

It seems things may not be going so well for the Doc. This seems also to open a HUGE crack in the armor, or otherwise put a hole in the hot air balloon for the other players to put this matter to rest.

Maybe ETS should have waited a bit longer. It was probably partly their efforts that got this issue re-examined by the PTO anyway.

I, for one, would not do business with anyone who thinks the best way to eliminate the competition is to sue them. I feel the free enterprise system facilitates competition, drives up the quality of products for the betterment of those who use them, and levels the playing field automatically. If you cannot compete, get out of the game.

I imagine this whole matter will be documented in the history of tanning as one huge waste of money and time, both of which would have been better spent improving the product and developing manufacturing techniques that facilitate a better value for its customers thereby automatically raising the bar for competition.

http://www.electricbeachtan.net/mist-on_patent2003dec04.pdf

[UCANTAN2]

Quote:
On 2003-12-12 14:33, sunraysun wrote:


I imagine this whole matter will be documented in the history of tanning as one huge waste of money and time, both of which would have been better spent improving the product and developing manufacturing techniques that facilitate a better value for its customers thereby automatically raising the bar for competition.

http://www.electricbeachtan.net/mist-on_patent2003dec04.pdf



Well Written Sunray! Also, I've been told [by a few] ETS had so many costly problems with their machine they thought rather than replace everyone's machine again [for the 3rd time] and then have to spend more money fighting off Laughlin's ridiculous claims; they thought it better to just quit the Sunless spray booth gig altogether. And what an exemplary move on their part to purchase $$$$ in parts to make sure past customers wouldn't be stuck. Laughlin would certainly love to take credit for them not selling anymore, but this was hardly the case. Poor guys just couldn't get it right. [ This Message was edited by: UCANTAN2 on 2003-12-15 22:37 ]

[DarkTan1]

"I imagine this whole matter will be documented in the history of tanning as one huge waste of money and time, both of which would have been better spent improving the product and developing manufacturing techniques that facilitate a better value for its customers thereby automatically raising the bar for competition."

Maybe another way to say that is why would Doc Laughlin spend hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting for his patent rights just to protect the millions he and Mystic spent developing and commercializing his invention?

The way I heard it, Mystic and Mist-On have set the bar for competition, and the only thing the new copy cats have done is to offer a cheaper unit. Every screwed up spray tan by the copy cats is a loss customer for them. How many customers can they afford to lose? How many bad tans would it take to destroy the market they spent millions to create? And how does that help the tanning salon industry?

[sunraysun]

There are more complaints about Mystic Tan than any machine out there, probably because they have been around the longest (not including mist on)! Many of my sunless customers used to use Mystic before they tried the MagicTan and since then, never went back (even at a cost of $10 more per session). I had UV customers afraid to try the Magic because of a bad Mystic experience. Talked them into trying the Magic and now they are regulars. Mist-on? Well, you have to find one first.... I did try it and found it to be reasonable but again, nothing compared to the Magic. To be perfectly honest, I think you can achieve good or bad results with all the machines out there. It is just in varying degrees. It's more about technique than anything else. AND by the way, DarkTan1, the price of the MagicTan booth is the same as the Mystic...$29,995.

[DarkTan1]

Maybe the reason there are more complaints with Mystic than Magic is that Mystic has 10 times more units out there. Plus, they have been out there for 4 times longer. Add to that, Magic has 60 or 70 distributors out there, most which have units. With a $10,000 commission on the line, they will stomp out any complaints, or place positive plugs.

[UCANTAN2]

Well, I of course have to put my two cents in here. I too purchased a MagicTan for 30K having the choice between Mystic and Magic and the others. (We first almost bought a Mystic just because of all their advertisements) But after my staff, family and friends visited several different salons, trying both (or all), the majority chose Magic. Maybe since then Mystic has made some improvements, but I too have had several people coming into my salon, one not too long ago with "Oh my God, my girlfriend tried one of those and she looked horrible" When asking if she would tell her friend to try us she said her friend would never do one again after her streaking experience. Well, in short, we were finally able to persuade her friend to try the Magic and ever since she is now a weekly customer bringing in even more friends. Come to find, her bad experience was in a Mystic. (Fancy that, now who's making who look bad) I of course will go by my own opinion, but when you have sooooo many customers coming in telling you how much they love your booth and are sending others in as well, then why say more.

At this point, Mystic is 30K and Magic is 30K. Quite honestly, I don't think it matters how much Magic or anyone puts in their pocket (it's about the booth buddy) there's no difference in price. It's not like there's a 10K difference. If any of that's true about the commission, then Mystic & Mist-on must be putting a heck of a lot more in their pocket since their booth is made out of particle board and a couple of bouncing nozzles. I at least feel confident knowing I got what I paid for with a Magic. I've heard of two people now who bought a Mist-on that are filing suit against Laugh-lin for mold accumulation on the wood ... lovely. Should have taken some of that extra cash he has and built a better booth!

Bottom line, Mystic & Mist-on really seem to be picking on Magic more so now since they are obviously worried about Magic taking over the market; they finally found someone who has built a better machine and are doing everything they can to get rid of them, including but not limited to cheap scare tactics. Most of us have received our legal wallpaper from Doc but are unaffected by it. I too could serve anyone for anything ... doesn't mean it's going to stick. (It helps with my husband being an attorney and he seeing this stuff everyday.) Hey, did ya read the MagicTanlegal, states Doc is trying to patent the same thing that was already done in 1934 ... amazing. Maybe that's why they keep rejecting him. I seriously wish MagicTan well. They really do have an awesome machine.



_________________


[ This Message was edited by: UCANTAN2 on 2003-12-22 12:07 ][ This Message was edited by: UCANTAN2 on 2003-12-23 08:46 ]

[UCANTAN2]

I just looked under MagicTanlegal in it's entirety and found this to be interesting.


Dear customer,

Magic Tan has had a prosperous year. With record sales and machine installations in over 25 countries, our company is growing at a rapid pace. Unfortunately, it appears that our high quality sunless spray tanning booths and our recent success have made us a target.

Recently, a complaint was filed by a competitor, Laughlin Products, which alleges patent infringement for the design and engineering of our Magic Tan spray booth. While we know the lawsuit is unfounded and the allegations of infringement are only alleged, we understand that you may have questions and concerns about these charges.

The reason for us writing is because we want you to feel confident, as we are, that this matter will be resolved and Magic Tan will prevail. Magic Tan has never violated any patents in the design or engineering of our spray booth. We fully stand behind our high quality Magic Tan products, and we pledge to stand behind you, our customer.

We have retained internationally recognized patent counsel to help us defend against the alleged infringement suit. In addition, we have established a defense fund through which we will indemnify all customers, including the payment of any potential legal expenses on their behalf, as it relates to this lawsuit.

Although Laughlin's previously filed suits have been stayed by the courts pending patent re-examination, and all of their recent claims have been rejected by the patent office, they continue to use intimidating litigation to attack the entire industry with lawsuits of no merit. Laughlin has never won a patent lawsuit in the sunless industry and no salon has ever been shut down for using a competitive, sunless spray tanning booth.

We realize that it is difficult to address all of your questions and concerns in this letter, so we have also posted a question and answer page on our Web site, at www.magictanlegal.com. If you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact Tim Niedel, President of Magic Tan, at hooper100@aol.com or 440-836-0199.

We very much appreciate your support and assure you that we will continue to provide you with the best quality, service and support in the industry.

[sunraysun]

UCANTAN2,

Finally someone who speaks some sense here. I am not sure that it matters who is benefitting from $10,000 either, be it the distributor or the company itself. All I know is I chose the best product and all my customers are happy and I, as a salon owner am serviced very well by my distributor. If my distributor makes a million off the transaction we made, as far as I am concerned, I think it's great, she deserves it! I think that people need to just be a little more objective and business minded here. Chose what you like, find a rep who you trust and buy it. Live and let live. Happy holidays.

[DarkTan1]

"We have retained internationally recognized patent counsel to help us defend against the alleged infringement suit. In addition, we have established a defense fund through which we will indemnify all customers, including the payment of any potential legal expenses on their behalf, as it relates to this lawsuit."

How does this work when the sued Magic Tan owner has to testify in pretrial manuvering between the attorneys and is required by the court to produce evidence of all the tanning sessions done, including the names and phone numbers of all the customers that have used the Magic booth? The rumor is that some sort of disclosure by the owners will be asked for so that the extent of damages can be set. So said Doc has never taken a case that far yet, that Trevor bailed just before that step. That Magic Tan indemnification paper may turn out to be a very valuable document.

[tan0h0lic]

im trying MAGIC tomorrow not MYSTIC...really, aside form the logos, what is the difference between the 2?

[MistNTanGal]

Goodness child, you must live a life protected from more than just those "bad" UV rays. Magic and Mystic are very different. The machines are different, the solutions they use are different, and the results are different.

People seem to understand that their machines and solutions are different, but have a hard time understanding that the results could be different, or that it matters. It certainly matters with tanning beds. And definitely with the cosmetics consumers pick. Some of the sunless spray booth manufacturers are trying to differentiate themselves. Certainly Mystic and Mist-On are trying to do that. Others would like everyone to think it doesn't matter. Perhaps that tells you who the best ones are.

[Lanie]

Excuse me, what's the deal.

Doc can't force anyone to do anything. Magic indemnifies the sued, and they are protected. These frivolous suits are a dime a dozen. No way Magic's attorneys will let their customers get hassled like that. Thats total nonsense.

[UCANTAN2]

Too much credit is given to this Doc guy! He and his cronies are trying to "scare" people into buying/using Mystic and Miston. (But, what else can one do when the other guy simply has a better machine) From what I gather, Magic is doing pretty darn good despite all his cheap scare tactics. This machine is incredible, I honestly fear another MagicTan going up in my area, yet I know it's bound to happen. I had 22 people New Year's Eve and 17 the day before that! Thank You MagicTan!! And yes, Mystic, Miston and MAGIC are thankfully different ... so is Raovac, EverReady, Duracell and Revlon, Max Factor and Channel. Isn't life grand for giving us choices! You go MagicTan, I'm rooting for you all the way

[DarkTan1]

Thanks for your views UCANTAN2, let me share a couple of my views.

The credit given the Doc guy was given by the US patent office. Explain to them why you don't have to follow their rules.

And I'm sure Doc's attorneys would like to hear more about all the tanning you're doing. Since you know there are patent laws involved, you can look forward to triple awards.

[UCANTAN2]

DARK1 ... are you referring to the patent taken from a guy who thought of them in 1934? From what I've read, Magic built their machine completely around Docs supposed patent that the patent office continues to reject; and Magic hasn't infringed on anything the Doc THOUGHT he did all by himself. Bring the attorney's on ... My husband and I are waiting for another cheap scare tactic by them ... in the meantime, our machine is doing fabulous for us! (despite the legal wallpaper he wishes to serve) I still continue to wish Magictan well!!

_________________
[ This Message was edited by: UCANTAN2 on 2004-01-04 17:26 ]

[DarkTan1]

Ucantan2,

We must be tuned in to different rumor mills. The story I keep hearing is that Mystic refused to sell a machine to Tim Neigel for whatever reason, so Tim decided to make his own. He must have known about Doc Laughlin's patents back then, especially if he tried to work around them. Doesn't sound like Doc thought he worked around them. I heard Doc is claiming he voilates a bunch of his patents. To quote some of the Magic supporters "The get out of jail free card is magictan's legal team."

Back to my earlier question, if you would. How will Magic take care of you if you have to give testimony in pretrial attorney questioning, and if you have to start coughing up you customer names and addresses? This sounds like serious stuff. It must be if Magic had to start a million dollar defense fund.

[UCANTAN2]

I am just not worried D1, nor are other salons I spoke with. With several of my family members being attorneys, including my husband, I'm actually waiting for this clown to try and pull something. MagicTan has not infringed on docs patent, which continues to be rejected over and over again; therefore this guy is more than likely unable to take it that far and there is no way he is able to demand customer logs. Some salons out their don't even keep files on their customers. A salon cannot get in trouble for something they legitimately and honestly bought and are using. Where are you getting this from? It's all scare tactics to slow the success of MagicTan. It's the big guy at MagicTan, not us little salon owners. Honestly, I would love to go into a court room and tell the judge just what I think of Mystic, Miston and Magic ... I was one of those "educated" consumers who did their homework and chose the better machine ... not the one who placed more ads.

In asking my rep about the more detailed questions, he said the reason Magic has such deep pockets (it's actually Million(s)) is because they know they are in the right and they will fight to the end to defend themselves, no matter how much it costs. He said they are spending over a quarter million dollars a month just to prove they didn't do anything wrong. I would too if I thought I was right.

And, I believe that anyone who would try to invent a better product/machine would be sure to do something different from what was patented don't cha think? C'mon, when ya look at the booths Doc created, they simply lack class and appeal ... it's painted wood with a couple of bouncy nozzles. Heck, if I had the time and resources, I would have done it myself. MagicTan is a classy looking, finely engineered machine. Would I change anything on it ... sure, but for now, I'm doing pretty well with what they've created, unlike the guy not too far down the road with a Mystic ... they're coming to me. And I'm charging more per spray tan. This is what's peeing Doc off Dark1, not that Magic infringed on their patent ... he's trying to find any loophole he can to get Magic off the market. But, the patent office continues to reject him. Again, Magic wants to fight him all the way. Oh, my rep also informed me that Doc called Magic tan asking if he would settle for a lesser amount now and he would consider other negotiations as well, MagicTan apparently told him "Not a Chance, We didn't do anything wrong and will prevail!" Wow, rather than give in and save money, they are going to fight to prove they are right, dang now I feel even more confident knowing that!

(sorry it's so long, but I needed to vent, especially after just getting off the phone with my rep, he said not to even bother with anyone on here, but obviously, I felt differently)

_________________
[ This Message was edited by: UCANTAN2 on 2004-01-06 22:43 ]

[safesunshine]

Not quite sure what the reason that darktan1 is so one-sided about all this. It sounds like you are one of the "mystic or mist-on internet chatroom henchmen" propagating this smoke and mirror fear to consumers doing research to purchase a sunless tanning booth. I hate seeing this type of obvious fear sales tactic. Darktan whoever you work for better give you better selling tools than this. Not once in any post has any reference been made to exactly how your mystic/miston is superior to magic tan. I have seen all the machines and tried all the machines, including those other dollar store quality machines and it's pretty obvious that magic tan not only has the highest quality construction and results, but has been sold on those merits. When I called mystic and asked them why I should buy their machine over say magic tan, the guy said "well, I'll tell you this much if you don't buy ours you'll get sued!". So much for quality construction, reliability, customer service, etc...

Let me end this by saying that it is a shame that miston and mystic are getting away with this. They better enjoy the extra sales while they can because I would bet anything that some poor sucker bought into this PR stunt and went with a mystic/miston to be on the so called "safe" side. If all the machines were lined up side by side and the results were measured, magic tan would win. I guess miston/mystic can't be blamed for getting scared as magic tan is set to exceed them in sales. They probably had a holy *#!@ pow-wow and thought hey even though we don't have a legal case, there is nothing stopping us from filing a lawsuit and while that is dragging on we'll milk this for all it's worth! Anyone can sue anyone and until the case is over, it is only natural to think the one bringing the suit has merit. Maybe someone at mystic or miston will read this and want to sue me for blowing the lid on their little sales strategy.

[BossIII]

I sell the Magic Tan for a distributor in NC, honestly the only trouble i've ran into when selling the Magic Tan vs. the Mystic is the whole lawsuit thing. When it comes to comparing quality I've always closed the sell over Mystic Tan.

[Baked]

Safesunshine:
What's the name of your salon and how long have you had your Magic Tan?

[safesunshine]

"mystic or mist-on internet chatroom henchmen"!

Now do you see what I mean!?! It's not even an appropriate reply to ask me private information, and for the record we don't have a sunless tanning booth YET. It must be really bothering someone that their salesperson used inappropriate sales tactics with us. I am really impressed by the overall professionalism by the salesperson from magic tan because we were really hard on them about this lawsuit thing. Sorry to dissapoint you baked. I'm really not looking for trouble from anyone, just gave a simple opinion. Peace.

[DarkTan1]

Ucantan2,

You and the Doc have at least one thing in common. You both like to surround yourselves with lawyers.

Why do you knock Doc’s Mist-On booth so much? Have you ever looked inside one of his machines. The engineering is incredible, and everything is contained in the booth, even the air compressor. It can give a very dark tan, and when all is said and done it is the fastest unit. With the simplified wash down process, some salons with a couple of prep rooms crank 10 or more tanners through in an hour. At $50,000, it was out of my range. At $40,000, I would have probably gone with it.

I am very familiar with Mystic and Mist-On, and a little with Magic. Mist-On cost more, but you get more. Did you do a head-on-head with Magic and Mist-On? It sure would seem worth the extra $5 or $10k for the difference in quality and speed, not to mention avoiding being sued.

Speaking of being sued and your family of lawyers. Doc has sued dozens of Magic distributors and Magic owners, and in lots of different locations. None have been thrown out or dismissed or anything like that. Not to my knowledge at least. With all of Magic's big time lawyers, and $250,000 already spent, wouldn't they have gotten at lease some of the cases thrown out if they were unfounded or frivilous? Is sounds like a lot of different judges all saw enough merit in the suits to continue.

You may be right about not having to produce customer lists. I'm double checking my sources on that one.

The area I'm in is heavy Mystic, very light Mist-On, and Magic-less. Thanks for giving a view from the Magic side.

[BossIII]

Magic Tan is grouping all the suits together instead of fighting each little frivolous lawsuit separate.

[sunraysun]

Darktan1,

You seem to have a lot of information and anti-MagicTan motivation to not be in any way associated with the Doc (or indeed to be the Doc). As a MagicTan customer with friends who also own Magic, I can tell you that a lot of what you are saying is untrue. I have tried the mist-on, mystic, and other technologies that were around when I purchased my Magic and I can assure you that there is nothing about the Mist-on that justifies such an outrageous price. If MagicTan were priced at $50,000, I probably would have still gone with them because of the design of the machine and quality of the tan. None of the others looked as good, were as small or worked as well. When I made this decision, I had no bias, I was just looking for value for money. To this day, I have no regrets and since I have to make the decision again, I am going with another Magic, implied legal risks or not. And why are you so hostile toward people who just bought a machine that they liked (that isn't a mist-on or Mystic)? What have you got against us anyway... Are you personaly losing something? If you are no way involved, why don't you just stand back like us all and wait to see what the courts decide.

[BossIII]

Sunraysun I'll sell you a Magic Tan for $50,000.00!!!!!!!!! LOL

[sunraysun]

Hey BossIII,

Thanks, but I really like my distributor. She doesn't do deals, but she's hot and kicks ***! Cute British accent too.

SRS

[UCANTAN2]

Dark 1 ... honestly, you're a waste of time. You obviously do not have an open mind as to what's going on with Magic Tan and you seem to be obsessed with pointless issues regarding spray booths.

In reading some of your past posts, you’re obviously the enemy! The other members on here are right, you're too involved in bashing Magic when so many of us are merely trying to express just how much "we" absolutely love our machines and "we" had a choice just like any one else, what exactly are you trying to push here?

... I wonder how many more MagicTan machines would be out there if less people like you were around scattering rubbish about such a high quality product. D1, I'm sure when all the smoke clears, you're going to see a heck of a lot more Magic's in your area ... they're too good a machine not to be.

Oh, and your ridiculous statement on Mystic and Miston ... The reason I can knock them is because I did see them and the only two people I know who have a Miston are suing the doc for mold accumulation on the "wood." Customers were in fact getting sick from the mold ... lovely. The one said repeated calls to have it repaired or replaced have not been returned either. Boy that doc guy is a standup character. Maybe you could help her, huh? Prior to my Magic purchase I phoned Laughlin many times in trying to find more out on their machine … finally a month later they called. I don’t do business this way. And Mystic, old news, they are big advertisers, have a big gawky machine and a big blue paint job ... other than that, it would never be accepted in my salon; resembles Docs big black haunted house-looking thing.

Another absurd remark you made stating doc surrounding himself with attorneys and I must like to also. This is what I mean; you simply utter pointless gibberish. And no, I just have a highly intelligent family who are brilliant in the law field ... Must bother you dear, you seem to knock the silliest most irrelevant items.

Obviously you have very close contact with the whole situation if you "know" none of the salons cases were thrown out. From what I gather, the majority of the salons are not worried dear ... why are you so insistent on trying to make one worry? You're only motive here is to place fear in the little guy who never even had a warning ticket or any other legal matter ... this cookie is well coached and NOT worried!

P.S. My rep just informed me of a salon going in about two miles down the road ... apparently what inspired them was my salon and the "Awesome spray booth" I had. Looks like I will "now" have a little competition since they intend to purchase two Magic booths for their new upscale salon, (now that worries me) I guess they know all about the legal mumbo jumbo and what's going on. Goes to show how some consumers are more aware of just how jealous, greedy, and absurd the other guy can get when things aren't going his way but still go forward with what they want anyhow.

[Lanie]

Down with big government. Up with live and let live. Legalize drugs and outlaw patents.

[DarkTan1]

Yes, I do follow docs patent antics very closely. Mystic is a major part of my revenue these days, and my biggest single equipment investment.

When I bought my booth, I was assured that it was patent protected. Part of my sales price was for a royalty payment to doc, who would protect my investment. I took that to mean that there would be no other sunless booths other than Mystic and Mist-On for me to have to compete with. I can deal with competition, but it costs me money. I have already spent a lot of money building the sunless market in my area. Now others are moving in to take it away.

The market is being flooded with all kinds of sunless booths - Magic, Hollywood, Miracle, Bronz Mist, Solar Shower, etc, etc, etc. I was first to market in my area, and I think I can hold my own. But why should I have to be fighting this battle when I bought a booth that should be patent protected.

So yea, I'm rooting for doc. I placed a big bet on him. Ucantan2, you have competition moving in on you now also, I'm sure it doesn't feel good to you either. But at least you weren't promised that it wouldn't happen.

[sunraysun]

Darktan1,

I feel your pain man. I just had a sunless put in a mile and a half away from me too. But, at least I had a say in whether or not it was a MagicTan. My distributor told me that they wanted to buy a Magic and asked me if I would be peeed if she sold it to them. Since they would have bought another kind anyway and that would affect MagicTan brand awareness and I wouldn't have had any control over pricing I decided to meet the guy to see if we could work together. He was cool and agreed not to have a price war, so far it's been cool. There seems to be enough business since I haven't seen any notable decrease in my sales. Anyway dude, I used to use Apple computers becuase of their graphic user interface but it was such an expensive machine and software for it was astronomical. Since Microsoft developed Windows I've been using a PC (almost half the price of a Mac) and everything I use on it is either free or cheap. Personally, I think it's a good thing that there is competition - for the consumer.

Will

[tanfastictan]

Wow, I sure hope this all gets resolved real soon and all this negative feedback can be cleared up. I too own a Magic Tan which is doing very well in our salon. If it weren't for MagicTan, I would never have been able to purchase a spray booth since Mystic wants only those who own a tanning salon. I found that odd since this new found UV free machine is supposed to promote healthier, better looking skin. Was it because the Mystic gives you better color when using a tanning bed and that's why they wouldn't sell to me without having any UV units? I own a full service salon and had been missing one thing, a spray on system. I didn't want to hire an attendant to spray on, always needing to be here waiting on someone to show, and in the meantime having to pay their salary. I think this machine is remarkable and quite attractive. Thankfully for this company I am able to provide my customers with a full service salon as advertised. By the way, my customers do love their tans without UV![ This Message was edited by: tanfastictan on 2004-01-09 21:20 ]

[sunraysun]

After I wrote that last message, something funny occured to me. It seems that non MagicTan owners are really hostile and spend their time complaining. While MagicTan people all seem to work together; customers & distributors. As a result, business seems to be booming for us all, not just MagicTan. This must be some weird karma thing. I guess positive energy does create positive things in life. HA! Join MagicTan, it may not be a MYSTICal experience, but it certainly works it's MAGIC!

[UCANTAN2]

The real problem with Mystic's popping up all over is Mystic themselves have what is it, 140-170 salons ... one coming to your area real soon. You could be a guy struggling to scrape up that $30,000 for your Mystic and boom next thing ya know, a Mystic Salon is opening up right next door practically giving their tans away. They're sneaky dudes. I guess greedy is more appropriate. I'll try to get the name of their salons but for some reason planet tan or planet beach rings a bell ... something along those lines. Who knows, maybe they have others in a different name ... I know my rep has enough to do with his business and his family that he wouldn't be putting a booth in across the street, from me or any of the other salons out here; which Mystic has apparently done many a times after a sale. D1, sorry to hear you were told all this patent stuff and blah blah blah ... More cheap sales tactics to better convince you of your purchase.

C'mon, did you really think they were the only ones to ever build a spray on tanning machine? Certainly the many machines /cars/TV’s/stereo’s/computers, etc. on the market show us what choices we have, simply because someone out there found a new and improved way of creating it. I'm thankful for choices or I may never have been able to purchase a spray booth ... I just don't like the other two ... the rest just aren't worth mentioning. This machine screams class and gives the best color I've seen yet. Mystic did have a decent color, sometimes, but during the few sessions that were had ... they just didn't look GREAT and it stunk. I think Magic looks GREAT, with a nice aroma actually; and I'm so happy the loud compressor isn't contained in the machine either ... we had a choice to place it in our basement where you don't even know we have one.

Really D1, I have excellent UV beds in my salon, however, a friend of ours just bought the new and improved version and her salon is booming with business, even during the slow season. Let's face it, we’ll always be surrounded by competition; we just have to learn how to deal with it in a tactful manner and how to better ourselves and keep the customers happy. The way doc and all his cronies are handling this is pure contention, greed and spitefulness. May the best TAN win!

[tanfastictan]

Quote:
On 2004-01-09 21:39, sunraysun wrote:
After I wrote that last message, something funny occured to me. It seems that non MagicTan owners are really hostile and spend their time complaining. While MagicTan people all seem to work together; customers & distributors. As a result, business seems to be booming for us all, not just MagicTan. This must be some weird karma thing. I guess positive energy does create positive things in life. HA! Join MagicTan, it may not be a MYSTICal experience, but it certainly works it's MAGIC!



Maybe because MagicTan owners are happier spray booth owners!! I am!

[UCANTAN2]

Quote:
On 2004-01-09 22:24, tanfastictan wrote:
Quote:
On 2004-01-09 21:39, sunraysun wrote:
After I wrote that last message, something funny occured to me. It seems that non MagicTan owners are really hostile and spend their time complaining. While MagicTan people all seem to work together; customers & distributors. As a result, business seems to be booming for us all, not just MagicTan. This must be some weird karma thing. I guess positive energy does create positive things in life. HA! Join MagicTan, it may not be a MYSTICal experience, but it certainly works it's MAGIC!



Maybe because MagicTan owners are happier spray booth owners!! I am!

[DarkTan1]

The Napsters of sunless tanning are having a good time. It does feel good, to some, to profit off the hard work and investment of others. Maybe I should cut my own CD and label it Britney Spears. Wonder if she has good attorneys.

[UCANTAN2]

we'll be happy no matter what cha do!!!!

[BossIII]

Maybe Dark Tan should go work for Ford and sue Chevy for making cars and trucks!

[UCANTAN2]

Hey, I'm up for anything if it makes this guy happy ... Somehow he just doesn't get the fact that people like choices.

I ran into someone the other day who said he was speaking with this mystic rep on a personal note and this rep said, "Quite honestly, Magic Tan is our only competition and it's pretty scary how many booths they're still selling with all the talk going around" Dang, once again a proven point that the only thing Magic has done wrong is upset the other guy since they've made such an awesome machine. And nobody copied off of anyone, they simply improved upon it!!!!

[spike500]

Quote:
On 2003-12-04 02:57, sunraysun wrote:
Nothing ever happened with the salons that were sued by Mist-on. It was all a merketing strategy to get people to buy miston (fear!). Go with Magic, I did and I have no regrets.



It's definitely a marketing ploy. What a racket.. threaten to sue you if you buy someone else's product???? I would not buy a Mytic booth because he seems to play unfairly.

[Lanie]

Are the Mist-On suits against Magic over or what? I haven't anything from either side for a while.

[sunraysun]

I heard the doc was trying to settle with Magic out of court and the president of Magictan told him to go to ****. Kind of a no brainer really, since everything the doc put forward got rejected by the patent office.